Some help needed

Der spezielle Bereich für Vergaser und und ihre Tücken

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AlteSchwede
Schlauchband-Polierer
Beiträge: 32
Registriert: Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:14
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353W - 1986

Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon AlteSchwede » Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:27

Hello everybody. This is my first post here. I am in Sweden and yesterday evening I bought my first Wartburg. It does not look perfect but it looks very okay. There is a problem with the motor I was hoping somebody here could help me figure out how to sort. Here is the situation: The motor starts easily and when accelerating it runs very good. When I let go of the accelerator to just cruise at a constant speed the motor is coughing and spluttering a bit. As soon as I accelerate again it runs just fine. The previous owner has replaced the ignition system with an electronic system, spark plugs and HT leads. Nothing made any difference so that's where I am taking over. My theory is that this is a vergaser problem. I THINK I have a Jikov carburetor but I am not sure. Any ideas would be appreciated. Oh - the car is a 1986 353W. Grüsse aus Schweden.

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Warre 1000
Frostsicherer Wartbürger
Beiträge: 2311
Registriert: Samstag 2. August 2008, 20:23
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
Wohnort: Finnland

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 18:22

Hjärtligt välkommen till ZWF!

I might be it is normal 2-stroke working motor. Driving with a Wartburg in town needs its own style. After crossing a street you accelerate a while and then you let the free wheel work. You remove the gas and let the Wartburg roll to next crossing. This way of driving is needed because so little power is needed. No valves with springs and cam shaft must be operated.

The 2-stroke enginge have no exhaust compresson neither inlet suction. All exhaust gases shall be blown out by fresh air from the crank shaft chamber. When idling and with low power this small exchange of exhaust gases and fresh air is not working very good. This is easy to hear at idle speed. The spark might not ignate the poor exchanged air and will ignate first the next time as little more air has been exchanged. Therefore you get the special idle sound: Räng - däng - däng - dängdäng - däng - dängdäng - däng.

Occurs this spotting and coughing still with 80km/h speed, it is not a normal motor function.

Besides hier is a Swedich IFA forum, but not so active. It is most Trabants.

http://www.trabant.se/
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

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Kolumbus
Teileträger
Beiträge: 852
Registriert: Freitag 12. Januar 2007, 12:36
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 353 de Luxe BJ 1981
911 SC Targa BJ 1982
ETZ 150 14PS Version BJ 1989
ETZ 251 BJ 1990
HP 400
Gruppe / Verein: Leipziger Stammtisch
Wohnort: Kriebstein

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon Kolumbus » Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 18:27

Hello,

do you know, that the Wartburg is equipped with a freewheel clutch and this system could be disabled? It sounds like this. If you enable it, than the engine will running idle even the wheels go faster. Other problem is, that you are driving a two stroke engine which is not made for running with minumum gas stroke. So you have to accelerate the engine and after that let it go to idling and use the sailing function.

Your car have to be equipped with the Jikov

Das hier enthaltene Foto wurde aus Copyrightgründen administrativ entfernt.
Bitte bedient Euch nicht einfach im Internet fremder Bilder - danke.


The BVF system looks like this

Bild
Zwei linke Hände, aber man kann es doch mal versuchen ;-)

AlteSchwede
Schlauchband-Polierer
Beiträge: 32
Registriert: Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:14
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353W - 1986

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon AlteSchwede » Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 21:15

Thank you very much for the answers. I actually had a two-stroke SAAB (from 1965) many years ago so even if the driving routine is not fresh in my memory I have driven a very similar car before. The SAAB was much smoother and I think IFA should be the better car since they had much bigger experience on 2 stroke engines than SAAB had. I feel very sure there is something that needs to be adjusted. The Wartburg will never run as smooth as a modern engine but the way my motor is behaving something needs to be done.
Yes, I have seen the Swedish Trabbi site but as you said - the forum isn't very active. Besides that I guess most knowledge about these cars is to be found in Deutschland. I had a quick look at my vergaser and I think it says Jikov on it. At least it says Made in Czekoslovakia. And, yes, still at 80 km/h I can feel and hear the engine is not running very well. And I want my new love to feel well :smile: Oh, how I love the Räng-däng-däng sound :razz:

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Tomtom
Schaupannenreparierer
Beiträge: 8985
Registriert: Samstag 21. Juli 2007, 22:21
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 312 300 HT
Wartburg 353W
Camping 312-500
Wohnort: Hamburg
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Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon Tomtom » Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 22:30

Hallo nach Sweden!
Made in Tschechoslowakia means. This is a Jikov Carburator.
Anyway. I have to switxh to german.
Ist ein Seilzug oder ein Gestänge verbaut?

Unser Freund Warre1000 kann sicher übersetzen:
Das Geruckel kann die Ursache in Gestänge oder Seilzug zum Vergaser zu tun haben....
Hast Du einmal etwas Gutes gefunden, mußt Du es pflegen!

AlteSchwede
Schlauchband-Polierer
Beiträge: 32
Registriert: Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:14
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353W - 1986

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon AlteSchwede » Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 22:47

Hello again! I know very little German but I know some words and with a bit of help from Google translate I think I can figure out a lot written in German. You (I think) are talking about a rod or a cable leading to the vergaser. Are you talking about the connection from the accelerator pedal to the Jikov? I think there is a cable. So, any theories in English or German would be most welcome :smile:

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Tomtom
Schaupannenreparierer
Beiträge: 8985
Registriert: Samstag 21. Juli 2007, 22:21
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 312 300 HT
Wartburg 353W
Camping 312-500
Wohnort: Hamburg
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Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon Tomtom » Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 23:15

The rope should have some 2mm arial way, when the motor is tipping from left to right and otherwise.
Pls. check this.
Hast Du einmal etwas Gutes gefunden, mußt Du es pflegen!

AlteSchwede
Schlauchband-Polierer
Beiträge: 32
Registriert: Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:14
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353W - 1986

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon AlteSchwede » Donnerstag 28. Mai 2015, 08:00

Gute morgen. I had a look at the vergaser cable before I went to work and there is a bit of free play so I think this should be okay. The car is still coughing but oh how nice it is to go by two-stroke to work :smile:

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bic
Abschmiernippel
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Registriert: Mittwoch 20. Februar 2013, 07:23
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Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon bic » Donnerstag 28. Mai 2015, 08:20

@ AlteSchwede, can you record a video of cough? At idle and moment during the journey? Then one can perhaps recognize your problem and help better.
Lieber Old School als gar keine Erziehung.

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Haiko
Radbolzenüberdreher
Beiträge: 994
Registriert: Sonntag 23. April 2006, 18:11
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Trabant 601 (1972)
Barkas B1000KB (1975)
HP750 Anhänger (1983)
Simson S51 (1984)
Wohnort: Oudehorne, (NL)
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Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon Haiko » Donnerstag 28. Mai 2015, 11:34

Did you clean the carburettor? When driving at a constant speed (also when the engine is struggling as you said), pull the choke a little bit. When the engine is going smooth, than problably the main nozzle(s) is/are perhaps blocked somehow.

Also, try co clean the carburettor first, also take everything apart (but try not to adjust the screws on the side, because the settings may be right). Use pressed air to blow out any debri and rinse with for example brake-cleaner. Use new gaskets, because the old ones may be sticking to the carburettor housing and rip during disassembling.

Be on the wise side and order your new gaskets before dismanteling the carburettor :smile:
Trabant 601L (1972) HP750.01/2 (1983) Barkas B1000KB (1975) Simson S51 B1-4 (1984)
Ein Holländer ohne West-Blech! :idea:

AlteSchwede
Schlauchband-Polierer
Beiträge: 32
Registriert: Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:14
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353W - 1986

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon AlteSchwede » Donnerstag 28. Mai 2015, 17:58

I might be able to make a video - if it is needed - see below.
No, I haven't opened the carburetor since I have only owned this car for 46 hours :D

Today something happened to the motor, something good I think. As I was on my way home from work the engine started to sound somewhat different to what it first sounded like. Then I tried driving slow and economic - just the way my motor doesn't like to be treated and it was working better than before. The overall sound of the car is much more like I want a 3 cylinder two stroke engine to sound like. Perhaps something has started to work just because I am using the car instead of keeping it parked. The total mileage of this car is just a little bit more than 50000 kilometers. I have driven it for 200+ kilometers since I bought it. I have driven it pretty hard, just the way I think two-stroke engines want to be driven. I have a paper with the Tüv-history of this car. It was sold new in Finland in 1986. My first Tüv-records are from 1995 when the car had done 33000 kilometers. Then it was used for 0 - 3000 km's per year until 2010. In 2013 it was imported to Sweden and then it has done less than 1000 km's on Swedish roads. Maybe, just maybe, things are starting to come alive after a long time of hardly being used. I keep my fingers crossed. This weekend I will remove as many electric connectors as possible, clean them and put them back since some electric functions don't feel reliable. If I am lucky this will affect the motor too. I will keep you updated.

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Haiko
Radbolzenüberdreher
Beiträge: 994
Registriert: Sonntag 23. April 2006, 18:11
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Trabant 601 (1972)
Barkas B1000KB (1975)
HP750 Anhänger (1983)
Simson S51 (1984)
Wohnort: Oudehorne, (NL)
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon Haiko » Donnerstag 28. Mai 2015, 18:21

Maybe it was running on just 2 cylinders... -roll-
Trabant 601L (1972) HP750.01/2 (1983) Barkas B1000KB (1975) Simson S51 B1-4 (1984)
Ein Holländer ohne West-Blech! :idea:

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Warre 1000
Frostsicherer Wartbürger
Beiträge: 2311
Registriert: Samstag 2. August 2008, 20:23
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
Wohnort: Finnland

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Donnerstag 28. Mai 2015, 21:06

AlteSchwede hat geschrieben:I.... This weekend I will remove as many electric connectors as possible, clean them and put them back since some electric functions don't feel reliable. ....

On my car it is usually the tap fuses that does not properly connect. It helps just turning them at their place, so oxidation and dust is weared away. But the same problem might occur again, so it is better to clean the fuse plate holder properly. And you might have to bend the fuse plate holder tighter, if the plate have lost too much tension.

Of course a corrated connector can also cause problems.
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

AlteSchwede
Schlauchband-Polierer
Beiträge: 32
Registriert: Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:14
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353W - 1986

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon AlteSchwede » Sonntag 31. Mai 2015, 17:50

At the end of an extremely rainy and windy weekend the sun came out and I could spend some time troubleshooting the Wartburg. I removed every electric connection I could find under the bonnet, cleaned, added some copper paste and put everything back. The only difference was that the horn/fanfare started working :smile: Apart from that the car was still coughing. So, I thought this must be a vergaser problem after all. I found the air mixture screw and turned it anti clockwise one full turn and the car was running much better :D I turned it a bit more and the car is now running what I think close to perfect :smile: :smile: :smile: Could it really be this simple? I don't know. Tomorrow I'll drive the car to work, 6 km's and then I should know if my adjustment was as successful as I hope. By the way - how many turns should normally the air mixture screw be turned out on a well working Jikov? Now I am off to post another question in the electrical part of this forum.

AlteSchwede
Schlauchband-Polierer
Beiträge: 32
Registriert: Mittwoch 27. Mai 2015, 17:14
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353W - 1986

Re: Some help needed

Ungelesener Beitragvon AlteSchwede » Montag 1. Juni 2015, 18:38

Now the Wartburg has done another 30 kilometers and I think it is doing okay. Of course it is not running as smooth as a modern car but I think it is okay. I checked the carburetor today, tightened some bolts and inspected the inlet fuel filter which was remarkably clean. I wonder - how thick should the bottom carburetor gasket be? The one that goes between the carburetor and the intake manifold. Mine is very thin. I think other two stroke engines have very thick gaskets there...


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